Do You Support The Death Penalty ? - Page 4

08-19-2007, 07:41 PM

"They won’t be spared if we don’t motivate our polititians to lobby the Indonesian government to commute the death sentences to increased prison sentences."

You might be overestimating the pull Australia has with Indonesia. If these were Americans in Saudi Arabia then, maybe they would be let off the hook. But there's a different relationship in this case. Also, maybe crucially, it seems there is a significant body of opinion in Oz - perhaps a majority opinion - that thinks executing 6 of the B9 is OK.
Mac@

kate2006 · 08-20-2007, 01:07 PM

Hi Mac@
Good to have your input - we sometimes think we are talking to ourselves here.

I am under no illusion as to how little Australia can influence the Indonesian government - we are very much in their hands in this matter. One opportunity though is that Australia is hoping for a Free Trade Agreement with Indonesia - and back room haggling is very much part of such deals.

Realistically no one, including the Bali Nine, expects the Indonesian government to give them free pardons and send them home - but if back room haggling, or any other government intervention, can get the death sentences commuted then surely it would be an all round advantage - for Australia, Indonesia, and the Bali prisoners.

Think of how many Australian producers were disgruntled by the terms of the Free Trade Agreement struck with the Americans - their interests were put to one side to achieve other aims.If enough Australians lobby the government to be seen to be more proactive - especially in an election year - who knows what might happen?

As to your second, and very relevant comment, sad and true as it is, surely no one wants to read notices such as this again:

>>NGUYEN VAN TUONG HAS BEEN EXECUTED ?Australia weeps for a young man who for whatever reason made a stupid mistake. This was his first crime! He was cooperative and helpful to the authorities; he has demonstrated real remorse for his crime. He is an Australian Citizen, yet he has been put to death in a foreign country, for a crime he would be lucky to get 10 years for here in Australia!<<
http://bali9.foreignprisoners.com/

If you remember the outpourings of grief and anger when Nguyen Van Tuong was hanged in Singapore - people who had ignored him previously were incensed, as they will be if any of the Bali prisoners are executed. Despite the interest taken then it was too little and too late - which is why people need to at least try to find a way to have the death penalty commuted.

I know that even mention of drug use stirs up anger in many people but, if no one else, every person who has ever scored drugs, recreational or to feed an addiction, should be standing up for these young and foolish mules - for the users are as much part of this problem as they are. Every person who goes out having bought their drugs, or who will buy them at a venue is as complicit as are the mules, as are the users who have their own regular suppliers.

For the rest, I would ask them to look at their own children and consider what they would want if those children had been foolish enough to do what the Bali prisoners did and were in the same predicament.

08-20-2007, 06:19 PM

"Realistically no one, including the Bali Nine, expects the Indonesian government to give them free pardons and send them home - "

They can only hope. Mind you, life in an Indonesian prison isn't much to look forward to...

kate2006 · 08-21-2007, 11:28 AM

Life in any prison is not much to look forward to, but to those whose only choice is between that and death it might seem to be the better alternative.

If there is any chance of having their death sentences commuted I believe those prisoners involved would see it as a tiny step towards an eventual release, giving them some hope of seeing their country again. Baby steps maybe, but better than what they are now facing.

Meantime I think they are doing the best they can to cope in very difficult circumstances and surroundings. It should be remembered that we send people to prison as a punishment - not for further punishment, as some people would seem to want.

How would you suggest we go about getting more public support?

possum · 08-21-2007, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac@

"Realistically no one, including the Bali Nine, expects the Indonesian government to give them free pardons and send them home - "

They can only hope. Mind you, life in an Indonesian prison isn't much to look forward to...

Well life in an Indonesian prison may not seem much to look forward to but when their's only that as an option against death... well I think you'll find that the 6 of the Bali 9 facing death - would rather spend their life in the prison. There is always a positive... Schapelle Corby is an ideal example - her attitude and spirit is getting her through her personal hell.

Those Australians currently living in Kerobokan are making the best of a bad situation and spending their days reading, writing letters, some have turned to religion, they do chore to keep themselves busy, play games, do puzzles, cook, share stories, many get visitors whether it be family, friends or well wishers the list goes on.

Anyway, if life in Kerobokan is an option for those on death row, I'm sure they'd jump at the chance.

There is always the possibility of early realease or reduced sentences too.

We must keep positive.

08-30-2007, 02:14 AM

"How would you suggest we go about getting more public support?"

Unfortunately it's a bit late in the day. The majority opinion in Oz appears to be, They deserve it, and, Don't bother me with the B9 anymore.

The Australian government has sent some pretty clear signals to Indonesia that it isn't going to rock the boat too much over this issue. There seems to be a tacit agreement between the two.

The only hope for the condemned is either a ruling by the supreme court banning the death sentence for drug trafficking, or a presidential pardon. Both of these outcomes appear unlikely.

kate2006 · 08-30-2007, 05:48 PM

I have found that there is a surprising amount of sympathy when you talk to individuals though - not wanting to discount their prison sentences, but to have the death sentence commuted.
I believe that only way we will get the government to do more - as in find ways for Indonesia to agree to step back from executing the Bali six without being seen to lose face - is to contact as many local MPs as possible to make our views known. With an election looming it is our best chance to get their attention - especially in marginal seats.

08-30-2007, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kate2006

I have found that there is a surprising amount of sympathy when you talk to individuals though - not wanting to discount their prison sentences, but to have the death sentence commuted.

On an emotional level yes. But the B9 case is a political football. Look at it from the Indonesians point of view. If the death sentences are commuted, that is inevitably going to send a message, and it's a message the Indonesian government doesn't want to send. Singapore has never had a problem in this regard as their drug trafficking rules are if anything even harsher than Indonesia's. (I know this is a support forum, but sometimes you have to be realistic and objective. Hope is never a strategy...)

kate2006 · 08-31-2007, 01:36 PM

A political football yes, but one that needs a kick if we are to show our government that their self-serving assessment of public interest is not shared by all Australians. Promising to ‘Govern for all of us’ does not allow anyone to be left out.

Realistically, and for the reasons you mentioned, I recognise that there is little we can do to influence the Indonesian government - though stranger things have happened in the interests of trade and expediency.

Hope may not be a strategy, but any attempt fueled by hope is better than nothing. Taking away hope is the last thing we should be doing to the Bali Nine and their families.

I would ask people who say they support the death sentence to look at their own children and think when they would not support them, even if they were foolish enough to do what the Bali Nine did - it is as simple as that.

sher · 09-12-2007, 10:00 AM

i do beleive in the death penalty but only for murders
child killers should be killed but not these boys
no way
why should they be killed
& the murders left breathing